Recently I found myself engaged in a heated debate with a friend on the subject of happiness. In the course of our discourse, I realized that we drew some philosophical conclusions about happiness, and what better place that to reveal them than here? Furthermore, I’ve decided to preserve the original dialogue as best I can, both because it’s highly entertaining, and displays philosophy in action, which I think is pretty cool. I’ve also gone with the dialogue format as a tribute to Plato; you can consider this post a “throwback”, if you will. I deserve only partial credit for this work, this dialogue IS NOT my own invention, it is a conversation that actually happened between myself and another person, however, the other person has declined credit and wishes to remain anonymous. Thus, I will give this person a fitting Greek alias, Protagoras of Lye, while I shall remains DemonDeekan. One final note: I have edited the spelling and grammar so that it reads easier, but the content is untouched.
DemonDeekan: So I saw an awesome TNG the other night, “Tapestry”, it’s the one where Picard gets killed, only to find Q waiting for him there in the afterlife.
Protagoras of Lye: I love that episode, because he totally plays god.
Protagoras of Lye: I see you’re working on your blog again. Just how bored are you?
DemonDeekan: You know, I was reflecting on my so-called “boredom” and I realized, I’m not so much bored as I just don’t know what to do with myself.
Protagoras of Lye: I have a solution, BLAST FROM THE PAST: track down your former paramours and engage in relations over break, then escape back to the safety of campus.
DemonDeekan: That’s a terrible idea! Besides, you’re the one with lots of former females floating around. And we both know ripping off scabs is one of your specialities. Remember Wanda? You should see if you can get her to leave her current guy for you.
Protagoras of Lye: My current relationships may be in a self-imposed tailspin, but even I’m not going to go that far!
DemonDeekan: HAHAHA, but you could totally do it, and as some eloquent philosopher once said, you gotta go ballz thru the wall
Protagoras of Lye: I told you my recent realization didn’t I? Actually, it’s really more of a paradigm shift for me.
DemonDeekan: Ooohhh, you know how much I “dig” paradigms!
Protagoras of Lye: . . . .
Protagoras of Lye: Anyways, the reason I had that horrible sex drought for 3 weeks after Jill was self-imposed, and although I realized at the time it was self-imposed I didn’t quite realize the thought process behind it.
DemonDeekan: WARNING: Your mention of “thought processes” has riled up the Philosopher in me. Proceed at your own risk.
Protagoras of Lye: I now understand that when I hunt for girls is that I’m unconsciously searching for girls to make relationships with. The only problem is that I’ve been searching for the very thing I hate once I’m in.
DemonDeekan: hahaha
Protagoras of Lye: The drought occurred because I had exhausted all nearby reserves of ‘relationship’ girls, and it was only because of this that I was able to realize that I had been pursuing girls that I would only grow to hate.
DemonDeekan: Ok, TIMEOUT, back up a sec. First of all, three weeks does NOT constitute a “horrible” sex drought. I believe I can attest to that myself.
Protagoras of Lye: Fair enough
DemonDeekan: Secondly, am I to infer from this that you legitimately grew to hate Victoria as well? Or is she the exception that proves the rule?
Protagoras of Lye: I wouldn’t say I grew to ‘hate’ her in the sense that I hated many of the others, but I believe that had I stuck around a bit longer I would have; ergo paradigm shift.
DemonDeekan: Very nice, kudos to you on increasing your self-awareness
Protagoras of Lye: The awareness is important, but awareness alone does not lead one to make a shift in thought to action. Rather, it’s my current actions that prove I’ve changed my thoughts
DemonDeekan: Explain
Protagoras of Lye: Well, after breaking up with Victoria, I am now pursuing her once again, which at first seems to counter my claims of not wanting a ‘relationship’ girl. However, my motives are now radically different. Whereas I once thought the relationship was a necessary means to the end of sex, I see sex now as an end in itself. So now instead of thinking “I must be in a relationship to obtain sex” I now think “I just need to obtain sex, screw relationships, they will make me unhappy”
DemonDeekan: Alright, I see the shift in thought, but what is it that enabled you to turn that thought into action? I can think of a great many things I’d like to do, but I never do them. Hell, New Year’s is coming up, how many goddamn resolutions do you think will go unfulfilled? Fucking billions!!! If you could isolate the mechanism whereby you were able to shift from thought to action, you could gain amazing control and power over yourself and achieve great things.
Protagoras of Lye: It wasn’t so much a shift from thought to action, so much as it was a shift from thought to thought to action
DemonDeekan: Still, almost anyone can shift from thought to thought, that’s easy, its that second shift where people fuck up, a la New Years. So what is it that prevents people from changing their actions after they’ve shifted thoughts?
DemonDeekan: I argue the conception of your shift is flawed, you have it backwards. Rather than making a thought-thought-action shift, you already had the action, and changed your thoughts to suit it. Psychologists have demonstrated that in cases of cognitive dissonance, most often people will chance their thoughts to suit their actions, rather than actually changing their actions. This is exemplified by the smoker who comes up with irrational excuses for why he continues to smoke.
Protagoras of Lye: I see then . . . I guess the driving force, or “mechanism” that you were looking for is that my motives are now radically different
DemonDeekan: But that doesn’t solve anything! Now we just have the question of how did your motives change? Are we doomed for an infinite regress here?
Protagoras of Lye: No, you’re missing my point here. What I’m saying is that this paradigm shift, whatever its causes, has resulted in my thoughts being more accurate, thus giving me greater personal freedom and power
DemonDeekan: Well, that’s fortuitous for you, but it leaves unsolved the question of whether or not we can ever really change our thoughts/motives, or is our best hope for happiness merely to make our thoughts more “accurate” by making them correspond to our actions and motives?
Protagoras of Lye: That sounds to me like you’ve found a new article for your blog?
DemonDeekan: I’ll be damned. That is one hell of a question to ponder, but I have to complete my epic ethics trilogy first.
Protagoras of Lye: Wait, happiness? Where’d that come from? I’m not saying I’m any happier. Perhaps, to use your terminology, I have more understanding of myself, but I wouldn’t say I’m happy.
DemonDeekan: You’re claiming that greater personal freedom and power doesn’t lead to happiness?
Protagoras of Lye: You believe it does? I would argue the opposite
DemonDeekan: Well, before we go too far, we need to establish what happiness is, namely, whether its self-defined, or externally defined, otherwise we have no chance of figuring out whether or not greater personal freedom and power leads to happiness.
Protagoras of Lye: Good luck with that
DemonDeekan: haha, oh no, you’re not getting off the hook that easily. You’ve got the Philosopher in me all riled up, we’ve gotta see this baby through.
Protagoras of Lye: Don’t waste your time on me, I couldn’t tell you what happiness is, other than I don’t have it
DemonDeekan: Bullshit! Socrates would say then at least you have a start. If you know you don’t have it, you can begin to look for it. C’mon, I need your help. I know neither if I do or do not have it, I need your expertise on what happiness isn’t if we’re to find what it is.
Protagoras of Lye: haha, looks like you’ve got me there Socrates. I feel if you can’t tell if you are happy, than you aren’t. I mean, there is relief, excitement, anticipation, pleasure . . . but is any of that happiness? Quantify it.
DemonDeekan: Whoa whoa, we’re totally not even there yet. We’ve gotta establish whether or not the fucker even exists before we can run around quantifying it. Forget what it is, or even if we have it, that’s irrelevant at this stage. The first step in a sound philosophical method is to establish whether it exists, otherwise, we could come up with a beautiful depication of happiness, but if we haven’t shown it to exist, we’re just wasting our time, doing little more than describing leprechauns and unicorns.
Protagoras of Lye: Well define it for me first. You can’t argue for its existence if you have no idea what it is.
DemonDeekan: hahaha, au contraire, trying to define it first is what leads you to get stuck in Meno’s Paradox. If you try to define it first, then you either know what it is or you don’t. If you do, then there is no need for inquiry, because you know what it is, and if you don’t know what it is, then as you so eloquently pointed out, we can’t say anything about it, existence or otherwise. Thus Meno argued, learning is impossible. However, one can slip this cleverly lain trap by first determining if something exists. You may encounter a fearsome predator deep in the African jungle . . . you may not know what it is, but you sure as hell know it exists. So learning isn’t an all-or nothing proposition, which is the background assumption Meno uses to give his paradox some teeth. We however, can take a piecemeal approach to assemble a picture of happiness.
Protagoras of Lye: Mmmmm sophistry, my favorite. I think I am a sophist in most respects, they were pretty much on the money.
DemonDeekan: Well than, what do you, as a Sophist say to this: I claim happiness does exist, and your earlier remark, about jubilation, excitement, relief, anticipation, etc not being happiness is inaccurate in much the same way as saying that the human body does not exist, all there is is a collection of organs, heart, lungs, kidney, etc. There may be some larger thing that exists, and your breaking it down into its component parts has done nothing to disprove its existence.
Protagoras of Lye: So what if you experienced jubiliation and relief. You have no justification with which to classify this as happiness. What if those things are like stars in a constellation? The constellation does not really exist, just a human mind sees something in the stars and gives it a name, like Orion or something. The same could be true that these feelings exist, but we’ve just made up something, happiness, that we think we see in these emotions. Is this feeling of happiness you purport to have lasting? Will it fade away in a few hours?
DemonDeekan: Now look who’s quantifying happiness! I told you we’re not there yet. Now you’ve gone and introduced another assumption into the mix, that happiness is some sort of semi-permanent state. Screw the details, all we wanna know is if it exists or not. And you’ve tacitly conceded that it does exist, even if its just a construct in our heads. Does “freedom” or “liberty” exist tangibly? No, but they are still crucial concepts in our lives. Even though we may find no tangible basis for happiness, it still may be a critical concept to get a grasp of.
Protagoras of Lye: Ok, so I concede happiness exists, at least in some form. But look, I’m assuming that if happiness must be desirable, or else it would not be worth pursuing. So if any of those ‘feelings’ you submitted as ‘happiness’ doesn’t last more than momentarily, then it would not be worth pursuing, and consequently not happiness, so we can eliminate those things as qualities of happiness.
DemonDeekan: Hold up!!! That’s not a basic assumption I can accept, because it comes with all sorts of hidden baggage about desirability of happiness and associated temporal correlations. Besides, even if it had no hidden baggage, the premise itself is faulty. We desire many things that exist only momentarily. Sex does not last that long and yet we work feverishly hard trying to procure it.
Protagoras of Lye: thats genetic
DemonDeekan: So what, you’re saying happiness can’t be genetic as well? Plenty of people are depressed because of genetic factors. What the fuck do you think Prozac is for?
Protagoras of Lye: First of all, as I’ve stated previously, I find no happiness in these girls’ company. And second, are you saying happiness is just an orgasm away? Then why not masturbate all day?
DemonDeekan: Don’t be ridiculous; you and I both know damn well that there is an emotional and physical void that for a heterosexual male can only be fulfilled by physical contact with a woman. Don’t bring those weak-ass objections in here, you’re better than that.
Protagoras of Lye: Hold on there, if you grant me that that happiness is desirable, which I think you have to given that you haven’t really refuted it yet, then it seems to me you’re implying that there are levels of happiness.
DemonDeekan: So? Why should that be problematic? There are many shades (levels) of the color red, why couldn’t there also be “shades” of happiness?
Protagoras of Lye: Yes, but I feel your definition of happiness is still lacking. Rather than giving me a description of what is unique to happiness that makes it happiness, you seem to make it an umbrella term for a variety of feelings, rather than a distinct state. If only “exists” as an umbrella term, what good is that? For happiness to really exist as something, even as abstract as “liberty”, it must be a distinct state
DemonDeekan: Hmmm, a fair accusation. Let me think a moment.
DemonDeekan: Alright, I think you have a point here. I agree that happiness must be a distinct state, and my efforts to characterize it as an umbrella term were misguided, but in my defense, I was only trying to establish the existence of happiness at the most basic level, and then build from there. So yes, if happiness is to be desirable, which I also agree that it must be, then it must exist as a unique state. If happiness did not exist as a unique state, but rather as an umbrella term, than happiness itself would not be desirable, but those terms under the umbrella must be? Are we agreed then, that happiness exists, and that it must be a distinct thing because it’s desired?
Protagoras of Lye: I’ll agree to the desirability of happiness if not its feasibility
DemonDeekan: Stop bringing in new concepts!!!!!
Protagoras of Lye: sorry
DemonDeekan: haha, its ok, but when you throw too many concepts in the mix at once, it’s difficult to analyze them and figure out what’s really going on. One of my professors once told me that the key to successful philosophy was “to think in slow motion.” If you rush through, you’re going to miss something.
Protagoras of Lye: Ok then, whats next in “slow motion”?
DemonDeekan: Hahaha, well, looking at what we have so far, I feel “existence” and “desire” are concepts we have a good enough grasp on, so we need to look at what it means for happiness to be a “distinct state.” But first, we also agree it is a distinct state?
Protagoras of Lye: yes
DemonDeekan: Does being a distinct state prevent it from having degrees, like we mentioned earlier? Degrees can be of force, vivacity, duration, etc
Protagoras of Lye: I dont think it does, I can believe that happiness occurs in degrees
DemonDeekan: OK then, on your toes. I am about to engage in some metaphysical trickery. Given that happiness is a distinct state, but that there can also be multiple degrees of happiness, I argue that there is a BEST state of happiness, a highest degree, if you will, and what’s more, this highest degree is also the most desirable. This resolves the problem of “umbrella terms” from before. Now one could legitimately say that all those terms like jubilation and excitement really exist as different names for different degrees of happiness, and your objection is that you are searching for the best degree of happiness, while I keep suggesting inferior degrees of happiness.
Protagoras of Lye: I’ll be damned. I think you may be on to something. That is indeed where our problem lies. I can agree with this, HOWEVER, I do wish to maintain that we need a distinction between happiness as such, and these other states of being. We can’t run around calling every pleasurable feeling happiness, that doesn’t jive with the way things work, and will just lead to more problems and confusion.
DemonDeekan: That’s fair. I propose then, that we name “happiness” only that which is the highest degree of happiness, and not any of the other terms. So from now on, when we speak of happiness, we are specifically speaking of happiness in the highest degree, whatever that may be.
Protagoras of Lye: Agreed
DemonDeekan: I think one component of happiness in the highest degree must be the absence of pain and presence of pleasure
Protagoras of Lye: Unless you like a little pain . . .
DemonDeekan: But if you like it, then its pleasurable
Protagoras of Lye: I feel we’re getting sidetracked on a tangent that won’t end well
DemonDeekan: yeah . . .
DemonDeekan: So some of your earlier comments would seem to indicate that you feel that the highest degree of happiness must be lasting?
Protagoras of Lye: Hmmm, I don’t know if you can quantify the time requirements for the highest degree of happiness
DemonDeekan: More is better is my basic premise, with longer time leading to more happiness, unless you think there is some Aristotelian “golden mean” of happiness?
Protagoras of Lye: hmmm . . . I find the entire concept of applying temporal standards to degrees of happiness to be sketchy
DemonDeekan: Hold up, I think we can add something to our definition without necessarily worrying about temporal shit. I do not thing happiness is subject to the rule of “too much of a good thing” I submit one cannot have too much happiness.
Protagoras of Lye: Perhaps, but I think you’re glossing over an important problem with time and degrees of happiness. The problem lies in equating a long period of a lower degree of happiness with a short period of high happiness
DemonDeekan: hahaha, nice try. You raise a damn good point there, one that would pose problems for a general account of happiness, but I think I can escape your trap. You’ve forgotten our earlier stipulation. We’ve restricted our discourse to happiness in the highest degree. Consequently, your problem is not a threat to our current endeavor.
I concede it may be indeterminate whether low happiness for a long time is better than high happiness for a short time, but do you agree that for equal amounts of happiness, especially of the highest degree, more time is better?
Protagoras of Lye: Tentatively, but I object to the increasingly subjective nature of these questions
DemonDeekan: Great so do I. So let’s regroup a minute. So far, our rough sketch of happiness depicts it as a unique and distinct state, of which there can be many degrees and components, but there is a highest degree, which is the best and most desirable state of happiness, no?
Protagoras of Lye: Rough indeed. I’m really glad we really cleared some stuff up in these past few hours
DemonDeekan: Now now, lets not sell ourselves short. I think this rough outline will be enough to suit our purposes.
Protagoras of Lye: Bullshit, we barely know what the fuck it is.
DemonDeekan: Hey, hear me out, let’s revisit some of our earlier comments and I bet our sketch will show that we have in fact increased our understanding and our ability to answer some questions.
Protagoras of Lye: I’m listening.
DemonDeekan: So you said “i do not have happiness.” Is it possible that you have happiness, but not the highest state of happiness? Or are you claiming you have absolutely zero happiness?
Protagoras of Lye: As happiness is a distinct state, regardless of degree, i would say that i have no happiness
DemonDeekan: But you’re ignoring what we’ve uncovered! We just established happiness does have degrees, you can’t turn around now and say “regardless of degree”, that’s not being faithful to all the hard work we put in here. So now we’re able to reflect on prior experiences as well. Have you ever had happiness, of any degree?
Protagoras of Lye: Who knows, we never defined what these states and degrees entail. All we know is that they exist. We never defined their parameter, that’s the essence of the problem. I’m taking the intellectual high ground as a sophist and arguing that your philosophical endeavors have come to naught.
DemonDeekan: Not true, Mr. Sophist. You’re forgetting one other quality,and this one was at your insistence too! Desirability. Clearly you have, do and will continue to desire things. Further you have satisfied at least some of these desires. Therefore, it is at least possible that at some point you satisfied a desire that resulted in happiness. It is extremely unlikely then that you’ve been without any degree of happiness your entire life, and to maintain that you’ve never experienced the slightest degree of happiness would be unrealistic, and unfair to what we’re trying to do here, and more importantly, unfair to yourself.
Protagoras of Lye: Fine. I agree that it is unlikely that I have been completely without happiness my entire life, and to maintain that position would be irrational. BUT I amend my previous statement to say that I’m not happy currently, and even if its logically probable that I had been happy in the past, that does not mean that I would know when or if I was happy at any specific point.
DemonDeekan: Not true, I don’t think you’ve followed your logic all the way through. So you may not know of a specific point when you had happiness, you can still find a candidate experience when it was highly likely that you experienced happiness. Or are you going to seriously maintain that you cant think of at least one example when you could have possibly been happy?
Protagoras of Lye: How do I know it wasn’t some other emotional state?
DemonDeekan: The bottom line is you don’t know, but that applies to everything, not just happiness, so it’s not consistent to use lack of knowledge to deny happiness unless you’re willing to engage in total skepticism and deny the existence of anything.
Protagoras of Lye: I’m a sophist remember?
DemonDeekan: Even so, you’ve already conceded the metaphysical possibility of your own happiness, so therefore, technically ANY experience at all would be a possible candidate for happiness. Lack of knowledge goes the other way too. You can’t use lack of knowledge to deny the possibility of your own happiness, because that very same lack of knowledge gives you no justifiable basis with which to refute the claim that its possible you do have knowledge, and you just do not know it.
Protagoras of Lye: You keep emphasizing the word ‘possibly’, which indicates that the probability exists hat there is no possible candidate for happiness
DemonDeekan: No, you know that’s bullshit. Cut the crap here. Look at your own logic, you’re contradicting yourself left and right. Gimmie a goddamn example, ANY example, otherwise you’re just refusing to be rational and there is no point in continuing this discussion, which would be a goddamn shame.
Protagoras of Lye: Fine: case example
Protagoras of Lye: I discover I received an A on my physics exam after I was sure that I had bombed it. I experienced emotions like relief, excitement, and joy, but can you classify this as happiness?
DemonDeekan: Yes, I think I see what you’re hung up on. I fear you may have fallen victim to the Reductionist Trap. Now let us assume for a moment IF, and I stress the IF, if happiness is a fundamental, or “atomic” concept, then it is therefore irreducible. Yet it seems like when you ask for a definition, you want happiness reduced to something else, something perhaps more readily identifiable, and that may not be possible with happiness.
DemonDeekan: In fact, I think that is just the case. I submit to you that happiness is not divisible or reducible, and you do in fact experience happiness, but lose sight of it in your efforts to reduce your feeling to some further state.
Protagoras of Lye: question
DemonDeekan: shoot
Protagoras of Lye: Is knowledge of one’s state of happiness impossible in relation to their actual state?
DemonDeekan: No, it would seem intuitively plausible to me that one of the criteria for happiness must be awareness that you’re happy
Protagoras of Lye: counterpoint:
DemonDeekan: If you say ignorance is bliss
DemonDeekan: I will kill you
Protagoras of Lye: Many people are deluded into thinking they are happy when they are actually quite miserable. So why can’t the reverse be true?
DemonDeekan: Damn, lemme think on this one. Well, it would only be true, or even possible, if happiness is an objective condition. I think you’ve made a brilliant point here. If happiness can be objectively determined, which I think it must be, then it would seem probable that one could be happy and be unaware of it . . . however I’m not sure we can just invert one situation and get the reverse to hold as well. I counterargue that while you may be unaware that you’re unhappy, even if it is plain to everyone else, the same cannot be said of happiness. I maintain that self-awareness is essential to happiness, and it is precisely the lack of self-awareness in the deluded person that makes them ultimately unhappy even if they do not realize it.
Protagoras of Lye: So then I think I have the solution to our dilemma. I profess to be unhappy, but what I am really professing is the ignorance of my component parts of happiness. Were I to stop making the ‘Reductionist’ objections to my own emotions, I would be aware of my happiness, and thus, I would be happy.
DemonDeekan: It’s a plausible solution . . . maybe not the perfect solution though. Still, I think its enough to answer our question that launched us into this crusade? You claimed greater personal freedom and power does not lead to happiness. Do we have an answer to this question?
Protagoras of Lye: I don’t think so
DemonDeekan: haha, I think so. Paradigm shift remember? You said that it made your thoughts more accurate, right?
Protagoras of Lye: yes
DemonDeekan: Well it seems to me “more accuracy” means “less ignorance.” And you said that this “more accuracy” is what led you to greater personal freedom and power. And since we’ve shown the link between reducing ignorance and gaining happiness, is it not extremely likely that by gaining more power, you will continue to have less ignorance, and if you’re lucky, that path might ultimately lead to happiness?
Protagoras of Lye: Perhaps, but I think I’ll need to do some serious thinking if I ever want to believe in my own happiness.
DemonDeekan: We’re right back where we started. You need another paradigm shift, to turn thought into thought into action so you can believe in your own happiness. Whether or not you choose to realize it, you’ve found your solution to happiness.
Protagoras of Lye: I still don’t have to accept it, I don’t buy it 100%. Besides, even if I did, we still don’t know how one turns thought into thought into action. There’s no guarantee I could realize my own happiness even if I tried.
DemonDeekan: True, but still, let’s not slight our own accomplishment. Kudos to you on pushing me philosophically to arrive at an actual conclusion that may have some worth to it.
Protagoras of Lye: woot
DemonDeekan: w00t
Protagoras of Lye: I sense a blog journal in the making. You need to get on the thought-thought-action thing.
DemonDeekan: Dear lord, gimmie a break! Its not every day you give an account of happiness!!! Let’s at least be aware enough to be happy of what we accomplished tonight (and into this morning), eh?
Protagoras of Lye: hahaha, agreed